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CheedoWan
02-25-2006, 01:31 PM
Hi guys ! :lol:

I'm really new to this garage kit business, I used to build and paint war hammer 40K miniatures, but I have always had the curiosity to start building this kind of kits. I have bought almost everything I think I'll need to get started; the only thing left for me to buy is the airbrush. I have been doing some research and in almost every forum or site, people say that the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS is a good choice for starters, so I found this auction in ebay, and I was wondering if you guys could give me some advice, is the combo any good for this kind of work ?? :wacko: here is the link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/IWATA-HP-CS-ECLIPSE-AIRBRUSH-COMPRESSOR-KIT-AIR-BRUSH_W0QQitemZ8262141101QQcategoryZ28111QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem

There is also this one for the HP-C I really not sure about the differences between them:

http://cgi.ebay.com/IWATA-HP-C-PLUS-AIRBRUSH-w-Quiet-Auto-On-Off-COMPRESSOR_W0QQitemZ8262795858QQcategoryZ28111QQrd Z1QQcmdZViewItem

Or maybe anyone here knows a better deal in some other site ;) , I'll gladly listen to any suggestions and advise. Well that’s all for the moment, thanks and bye ! :D

redrage
02-25-2006, 02:26 PM
You can't go wrong with an Iwata HP-CS; it's an excellent choice for figure painting. Those two kits look like they have everything you need to get started but you may want to think about it a little more before you commit to either because you may be able to do better than the compressor they are packaging.

The topic of "Which compressor do I need?" is an age old one and unforunately it can be a little difficult to answer since it's not a one size fits all type of question.

I don't need a silent compressor so a mini-compressor that would drive a nail gun or brad nailer would be a better choice for me. (actually I use a 5hp auto-body type compressor with 1/4" NPT quick releases. Works great for me but may not be what you need)

Your compressor should have the following features:
1. Oiless (unless it is a silent type compressor)
2. Surge tank or storage tank (reduces air supply pulsing and reduces the amount of time that you compressor cycles thereby lowering its air temprature)
3. Pressure regulator (5 psi - 50 psi is a good range; read your airbrush manufacturers guide to see what they recommend)
4. Moisture trap - Must have!
5. Adequate continious psi & cfm (Iwata recommends 45 psi for the HP-CS)

What are your compressor needs?
1. Silent, quiet, or not an issue (Do you paint in an apartment or your own house? Do you paint late at night?)
2. Inexpensive, moderate or not an issue (Silent compressors and industrial compressors are expensive)
3. Small size vs. large size. (do you have room for a larger compressor? Will you be transporting your compressor?)
4. Made for airbrush use vs. I can adapt one for airbrush use. (are you comfortable buying and assembling shop type quick releases?)
5. Are you willing to invest a lot of money in a compressor at this time; are you sure you will be airbrushing for a few years?


I think that you would be able to get started with the airbrush with either compressor just fine but you might out grow it over time; then again maybe not. Its really a personal preference; maybe others can weigh in with their thoughts too. I like big compressors that cycle once and shut off and let me paint models for 4 - 6 hours or more without cycling again but that's just my personal preference and clearly won't work for everone.

Hope this helps some.

Dr.H
02-25-2006, 02:35 PM
Yeah I've been waiting for technical questions to start showing up!

Ok airbrushes..
First lets see about the ab(airbrush) and companies, you seem to like the Iwata brand http://www.iwatamedea.com/products/airbrush/index.html (http://www.iwatamedea.com/products/airbrush/index.html) which a good number of us have and love including me. Iwata has five levels of ab's they make starting with the entry level Revolution then Eclipse, High Performance Plus, Hi-Line and the super fine Custom Micron.

The main differences in each model line is the cup size and some have different needle/nozzle sizes(smaller mm = finer lines).
As you step up to higher models the internals of the ab change to better fitting and designed parts and more options are added to give you better control over the paint and air flow.

The Revolution is your basic entry level ab with a .5mm Needle which is good for using on thicker paints or higher volumes though can be tricky with higher detail spraying.

The Eclipse line is a much better entry level ab in my opinion, its still a low price and with its .35 mm needle and cut away handle for easy cleaning it more versatile than the Revolution. I use a HP-CS for spraying primers and like it alot

The High Performance Plus line is the middle ground and is very commonly bought ab's with its famous HP-C ab. The Hp-C has a .3mm needle/nozzle and a 1/3 cup with a cutaway handle and a preset handle which can be set to stop the needle from opening past a certain point, this is great to make sure you don't over apply paint without straining your concentration by holding a certain point with the lever. The HP-C is a work horse and one of the best all purpose ab's you can buy, there a good chance if you buy it you'll never need another one. The smaller cup ab's in this line contain .2mm needles for finer lines.

The High-Line series are the same as the High Performance Plus line with one minor change, the addition of the MAC control. The MAC control is a small valve on the bottom of the ab under its cup, this valve is used to make small changes in air pressure at the ab without having to adjust the compressor itself. I use the HP-CH for my main ab and it's one of my fav ab's by far.

The Custom Micron line is the best ab made. It's super high quality and has a price tag to go with it. With a .18mm matched head needle/nozzle system a crown cap for close up spraying and all the best features from the other lines but at higher quality...its mainly an illustrator ab and not many model builders feel they need that level of precision for most kits.

If you feel comfortable with ordering from Japanese companies or using Yahoo Japan Auctions you can get the Japanese versions of Iwata ab's made by the same company and sold by GSI at a much lower price, the Tamiya Ab's are also similar and very good.

There are other companies out there such as the Badger and Paasche but I'm not to familiar with their brushes, I do hear the Paasche V series is suppose to be a workhorse and you can run almost anything through them..

Were to get a AB is a question of opinion I suppose.
You can use ebay if you trust the sellers or YJ if you want a Japanese ab, these auction system will usually yield the best prices.
If you want a fixed store to buy from incase of future issues with the ab I'd recommend Dixie Art in New Orleans. I bought all my AB equipment from them because they have some of the best prices, free shipping and if you have any problems they are very good at fixing them for you fast. http://www.dixieart.com/Dixie_Art_S..._Main_Page.html (http://www.dixieart.com/Dixie_Art_Supplies_Airbrush_Main_Page.html)
There are Japanese based stores that ship to the U.S. if your interested but unless your uncomfortable with using YJ they cost a bit more.

GKJ has a good list of suppliers here http://www.gkjapan.com/showthread.php?t=33 (http://www.gkjapan.com/showthread.php?t=33)

As far as compressors go RedRage did a good job of breaking the differences down for you. I personally own a Iwata PowerJet and love it but its a bit costly.
I can't give any recomendations on the compressors in the kits you showed since it didn't mention the company who builds them... be careful with that.

When you think you see a compressor or ab you want or if you have a specific budget let us know and we will try to make sure you get the best products for your money.

CheedoWan
02-25-2006, 06:12 PM
First of all thanks for the prompt response :lol: , this forum is really complete and a great source of info...

Redrage, thanks for the info:

What are your compressor needs?
1. Silent, quiet, or not an issue (Do you paint in an apartment or your own house? Do you paint late at night?)
I guess quiet would be nice, but really not an issue, I'll paint at my own house...

2. Inexpensive, moderate or not an issue (Silent compressors and industrial compressors are expensive)
Moderate, cuz I have already spent about $450 in supplies and kits... gotta have some money to buy food... hehe :D

3. Small size vs. large size. (do you have room for a larger compressor? Will you be transporting your compressor?)
Size doesn't matter... ;)

4. Made for airbrush use vs. I can adapt one for airbrush use. (are you comfortable buying and assembling shop type quick releases?)
The first one, if I buy a compressor I'll use it just for the airbrush...


5. Are you willing to invest a lot of money in a compressor at this time; are you sure you will be airbrushing for a few years?
I guess something around 350-400 max for both... and yes I plan to airbrush for a few years, I really like scale modeling cuz, it helps me to get mi mind in just one thing(the kit), and forget about all other stuff, it's a good stress therapy for me... besides when you see the finished work it really nice to see that all the effort was worth it... :)

Dr. H

You do know your airbrushes Dr. H :bow: , thanks a lot for all the info, I finally got some things about the different models right... after reading your reply, I think I'll go for the HP-C, the CH might be a lil too much for me to handle right now :sweat: , the interesting thing about what you told me, that I wasn't aware of, is the MAC control valve, I think that would become handy for a newbe like me... about the compressor, the Power Jet it's really cool, but a lil out of my budget :cry: , maybe in the future... I found the company that sells the compressors of the ebay auctions I posted a while ago, it seems decent enough for me, this is the link:

http://www.airbrush-depot.com/scripts/depot.exe?pgm=compress.bbx

They even have one with a reservoir tank... also I found this in ebay, but that one doesn't have the tank:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Iwata-Power-Jet-Lite-Airbrush-Compressor_W0QQitemZ8262949447QQcategoryZ28111QQss PageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Well that's about it, again thanks a lot for the help guys, I really appreciate it ! bye !! :lol:


btw... I have some questions about the putty thing, the cleaning of the airbrush, driying time(Mr. Thinner vs Mr. Thinner with color leveling thinner), and Mr. Color paints, I have already read a lot of tutorials but still I have some doubts, I know that the best way it's try and error, but I was wondering if it would be ok to post them here... :unsure:

Arieanna
02-25-2006, 06:26 PM
post any questions you have. I'm betting someone here will be able to answer them.

You seem to have made Doc's day with the AB question so I'm sure he'd welcome more! lol :happy:

redrage
02-25-2006, 07:54 PM
The compressor that they list as ABD TC-20T looks like a servicable unit and appears to have all the components that you need to get going. I'm not familiar with the brand so I can't really make a recommendation either way but it appears to have all the features that you need. It may not be a bad way to go.


FWIW...

When I started out I had one of the "hobby-type" diapraghm compressors with no shut off valve, no requlator and no moisture trap. I had to work quickly or it would blow moisture into the fresh paint job without warning. It had a max psi of about 33 so I had to thin the paint considerably to make it work: it took forever for the paint to dry. Given those difficulties I'm surprised I even kept trying to learn; it wasn't exactly the hot ticket. The compressor you're looking at looks like a much better deal in comparision.

I put together a compressor set-up for a friend of mine using a air compressor for a brad nailer that we bought at a lumber yard and a moisture trap/regulator combo for about $150.00. It's not a silent rig but it's quiet enough for indoor use and will last him forever. It has enough SCFM to drive a small nail gun so airbrushes aren't a problem.

I have a 5 hp compressor that I run auto-body tools with that I got on sale for about $350.00. With about $30.00 of parts (again on sale) I made a remote moisture trap/ pressure regulator with 1/4" NPT quick releases. This rig is quite happy to charge the tank and cycle off and provide plenty of air for air brushing all night. I also built a fence for my house with this rig using my Paslode nail gun and it drives an impact wrench in my shop. It's healthy and should last 20 years or more (40 more likely with proper maintenance). This is my favorite set-up but it's very large and very loud: it won't work for everyone. A good return on less than $400.00.

In college I used a Badger Trillionaire "Silent" compressor. I bought it new from the art supply store. I think I paid around $500.00 for it. It started spitting oil within about a year and Badger wouldn't warrant it so now sits in my garage and collects dust. It had a list price of $1,000.00 or more. I've been rather dissappointed with it to say the least.

Just some random thoughts. You can see why I'm a big compressor fan given my past experiences with smaller compressor set-ups.

Keep us posted.

Dr.H
02-25-2006, 09:26 PM
btw... I have some questions about the putty thing, the cleaning of the airbrush, driying time(Mr. Thinner vs Mr. Thinner with color leveling thinner), and Mr. Color paints, I have already read a lot of tutorials but still I have some doubts, I know that the best way it's try and error, but I was wondering if it would be ok to post them here... :unsure:

We would love to answer some more question.. I think it would be best if you started another thread just about material question so is can get a proper responce and isn't lost in a airbrush thread.

I think you will be very very happy with the HP-C, you'll be buying an airbrush you'll have forever and can use on almost any project. I've never meet anyone who didn't love their HP-C ( make sure if you buy it on ebay that it's a HP-C Plus not a regular HP-C which Iwata discontinued a couple of years ago)

With the compressor I agree with red that if size and sound doesnt matter a brad gun compressor would work well becasue they cost half of that of airbrush compressors with a tank. A Senco mini http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000AQK78/qid=1140920369/sr=8-8/ref=pd_bbs_8/103-4254483-0247028?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=228013
or the Delta Shop Master http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000VSB5A/qid=1140920454/sr=8-2/ref=pd_bbs_2/103-4254483-0247028?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=228013 would be good choices.
Unless your a car nut like Red:p I wouldn't recomend the larger industial compressors lol I have a few and man if they didn't have large storage tanks they would make you go nuts.

Lol not to make a shameless sales plug but if your looking for a top quality pro airbrush compressor at a crazy low price I'm selling one here: http://www.gkjapan.com/showthread.php?t=90