PDA

View Full Version : "Video Killed The Radio Star?"



Masa
09-28-2007, 10:30 PM
... or without the Buggles reference...

"PVC Killed The Garage Kit?"

There is no question that the manufacturers make more money with prepaints. For the typical end user, with no interest in building and painting a kit, the prepaint is more than acceptable and at a great price point. As long as the gk events are running, we should still see resin kits, but again, as more and more sculptors are being picked up by the big companies for the pvc market, we will probably see less and less kits from the better sculptors out there.

For now, the small event dealers are still making kits first, then releasing prepainted pvc's later through larger toy/action figure companies like Alter, Yamato, and Goodsmile to name a few. But it seems like it is just a matter of time before they start going straight to pvc.

I would prefer that this was just a temporary thing, but it is really hard to say since garage kits haven't really been around long enough to determine any kind of cycle. It feels like the hobby was so much bigger back in the 80's and 90's, but the actual sale numbers were probably better in the late 90's and early 2000's. Fans still want figures... but now they don't have to build and paint them. The market found a new medium and the majority of fans seem content.

I was discussing this with some other members and one idea that kept coming up was that the subject matter might be contributing to the problem. The 80's and 90's had some great anime that had huge fanbases... but it seems like lately - everything is being rehashed and filtered down so much that nothing really stands out anymore. There hasn't been anything really popular since Evangelion, and you can see it in the kit industry.

Any thoughts or concerns?

Zen-Builder
09-28-2007, 10:50 PM
Agree on the lack of good new anime.

OTOH, the move to pre-builds and pre-paints is across the hobby not just g-kit related.
Look at the new Revell Easykit Star Wars kits, all-snap-together and pre-painted.
Some contests now also accept kits with factory painted and decaled bodies.

The upcoming Bandai Gundam 00 Kits you won't even need a cutter to get the parts of the sprues.

I think we are seeing a shift in the mindset of the average consumer more than anything. Also the licence holder getting stricter doesn't help.

Most of the customers for original G-kits and other model-related subjects seem to be in the late-30's and upward age-bracket.

Just my 0.2yen worth of thought.

P.S.: Why did you have to mention the buggles, needed to dig out the vinyl. ;)

Dr.H
09-30-2007, 09:18 PM
I agree that this is a disturbing trend in our hobby.

A lot of it probably does have to do with the lack of a original or hit anime shows as big as they were in the 90's. A huge anime means tons of products from all areas of the anime related hobbies. With bland or similar anime people are less willing to buy related goods.
You have a good point that most people will be happy with a pvc they don't have to build and costs less. This is good for the sculptors and bad for us.

As with anything else the sculptors and companies can get the products made in China for a lower cost, making their profit margin much larger.
It's like this in many markets right now and we have to wait for Chinese production prices to rise as their economy increases or for a backlash against the quality of products produced there. The down side of that is some of these newer pvc kits are pretty good looking.

As for sculptors skipping the resin step and moving right into PVC.. it's already happening. I hate that Tandem Twin made two kick ass Kenichi anime kits of the two main girls and never released them in resin!!

Lets all hope this is just a phase..

taggor
10-01-2007, 10:43 PM
I can only agree with all the comentary on the thread here. It is a bit dissapointing a lot of PVC's that I see I would rather have as a kit but, I suppose it's a trend at the moment and I can only hope that it will revert back to resin kits sometime soon.

xDiscoStu
10-02-2007, 05:08 PM
Sorry folks, but this is going to be the state of things. There are more of the "less than artsy-craftsy" types than there are hobbyist types. They can move more of one product than another.
The GK hobby is just going back to it's roots. The old relationship between one person making something and selling a few copies to a few people. The US GK scene has been at this place for nearly 10 years, now. The J-GK scene is just realizing that they are there now, too.
Is this a bad thing? Yes and no...
Yes: fewer available kits at what will probably be higher prices.
No: Larger or more dynamic sculpts becoming more and more common... or... fewer Ayanami kits, but better examples of Ayanami

As to Masa's argument that the anime industry created the GK industry:
I'd tend to agree, but I'd be more focused than that, I'd say the hobby was there, but Gainax turned it into an industry... back to the Ayanami example... remember: General Products begat Daicon Films which later became Gainax. GP made some great vinyl and resin kits and Gainax made Honneamise and Top o Narae. Gainax and GP merge back together and begat Eva and then vomited Ayanami kits and related licensing. But the market could only support so much, and most people really just wanted the statue, not the hobby.
I've stated before that truly ground breaking shows come out maybe once every five years. We've been a bit overdue by a few years, but when it does will it be enough to resuscitate the hobby? I'm not sure, I think the trend has been set. Prepaints and cold casts are the future for the big boys. The enthusiasts and the hardcore will still be able to get our resin fix, but we'll have to savor each hit a bit more for a little bit longer. *sigh* that acetone smells nice, don't it?

secretasianman
10-14-2007, 02:12 AM
So, I've been gone for quite a while and just recently started poking around YJA to see what I might want to get my grubby hands on. My first observation is everything I want has tripled in price, and the selection has either deteriorated or the wow factor has lost its lustre. But it's far from a trend. Society has evolved towards instant gratification. Now you can click your way to entire song collections you'll never listen to instead of lovingly bulding music collections disc by disc, all the while taking the time to listen to each of them at least once before shelving it for good. People don't have pagers anymore, payphones have gone the say of the Dodo and with SMS, cell phones and instant messaging, the mean time to wait for someone to get back to you... is almost close to nil. So it doesn't surprise me that rather than investing their time they'd prefer to snap up the manufactured version and have it on their shelf in no time.

xDiscoStu
10-15-2007, 08:59 AM
It's not all gloom and doom. Kotobukiya has announced 2, read it again... 2 new resin kits for release. from our friends at HLJ: (http://www.hlj.com/hljlist2/?Dis=2&MacroType=ResKit&SeriesID=2965)

What was once a fire hose blast of new kits, has been reduced to slow trickle of goodness.

drink it up folks, it's all we've got.

nightengale5385
10-15-2007, 05:09 PM
It's not all gloom and doom. Kotobukiya has announced 2, read it again... 2 new resin kits for release. from our friends at HLJ: (http://www.hlj.com/hljlist2/?Dis=2&MacroType=ResKit&SeriesID=2965)

I'm so glad I held off buying Zenko's Yoko kit. Now I can have two for under 10000 yen a piece and no comission fees:D. I was pretty shock too see these because I thought Koto had stop mass producing kits. I'm hoping from time to time they'll release some resin kits like Volks and Amie grand:(

xDiscoStu
10-19-2007, 05:33 PM
Alright! We finally have an idea of what Kotobukiya's new Yoko kits look like:

First one Vs. Teppelin version (http://www.hlj.com/hlj_gallery2/v/plamod2007/figures/DSC_5026.jpg.html)

&

Second Vs. Anti Spiral Version (http://www.hlj.com/hlj_gallery2/v/plamod2007/figures/DSC_5030.jpg.html)

So the trickle of kits gave us some real treats!

KrokoHunter
10-19-2007, 08:33 PM
Alright! We finally have an idea of what Kotobukiya's new Yoko kits look like:

First one Vs. Teppelin version (http://www.hlj.com/hlj_gallery2/v/plamod2007/figures/DSC_5026.jpg.html)

&

Second Vs. Anti Spiral Version (http://www.hlj.com/hlj_gallery2/v/plamod2007/figures/DSC_5030.jpg.html)

So the trickle of kits gave us some real treats!

A cute chick with a big rifle ... what's not to love ???? :D

I'm soooo gonna have to have this kit ... she looks awesome. I hope HobbySearch will get her too .. I really digg their bonuspoint system :hehe:

Back on subject.

To me, the tendancy is a real shame .... I'm a modelbuilder, not collector .. so to me, PVC's don't have any real value ....

But I do understand the tendancy, and the need for the sculptors to switch to the PVC-market ... it's where the money is ..... and they need to make a living ... just like the rest of us .... no hard feelings !!!

If there will be a return towards the resinkits .... hard to say ... but I hope ... but do however have doubts ...

I can only hope, that some of the sculptors, will continue to release resinkit-versions of new kits, before they release them as PVC ...

secretasianman
10-20-2007, 01:54 AM
Oh my sweet Yoko :) I'm verry happy this is a production kit. (sign me up!) I'm preferential to the Anti Spiral Version which sports visible 'underboob' and also upholds the unofficial GKJ charter. :)

KrokoHunter
10-20-2007, 02:35 AM
Oh my sweet Yoko :) I'm verry happy this is a production kit. (sign me up!) I'm preferential to the Anti Spiral Version which sports visible 'underboob' and also upholds the unofficial GKJ charter. :)

Secretasianman, do you have that picture in a larger version ... it would definately make a very nice wallpaper! :wub:

secretasianman
10-20-2007, 05:20 PM
sadly that's the only size i've been able to find. Don't fret however, there's plenty to choose from here:

http://danbooru.donmai.us/post?tags=yoko&commit=Search

Willow
10-21-2007, 10:44 AM
ubc

YuJingSi
01-10-2008, 09:58 PM
Apologies if this ends up double posted <.< >.> I got logged out amid typing it.



... or without the Buggles reference...

"PVC Killed The Garage Kit?"

There is no question that the manufacturers make more money with prepaints. For the typical end user, with no interest in building and painting a kit, the prepaint is more than acceptable and at a great price point...

I would prefer that this was just a temporary thing, but it is really hard to say since garage kits haven't really been around long enough to determine any kind of cycle. It feels like the hobby was so much bigger back in the 80's and 90's, but the actual sale numbers were probably better in the late 90's and early 2000's. Fans still want figures... but now they don't have to build and paint them. The market found a new medium and the majority of fans seem content.

I was discussing this with some other members and one idea that kept coming up was that the subject matter might be contributing to the problem. The 80's and 90's had some great anime that had huge fanbases... but it seems like lately - everything is being rehashed and filtered down so much that nothing really stands out anymore. There hasn't been anything really popular since Evangelion, and you can see it in the kit industry.

Any thoughts or concerns?

-Scaled the quote down just a bit to highlight the areas I'll touch on-

As someone who normally bought the PVCs for a long while I think I can touch on the first part a bit. Though keep in mind I can only speak for myself.
The first thing that attracted me to the models was just the sheer beauty of them (well, some of them). It honestly wasnt until later that I learned about the GK scene, and honestly after learning about it I wanted to be a part of it. There's an inherent desire for us to want to create things of beauty (even if some of us just fall to laziness, the desire is still there). I think a big problem is that the exposure does not seem to be there these days (if there was in the 80s and 90s). I can go to an Anime con and find tons of PVCs, I can find tons of Gundam kits, but the character kits (if there's a better name for them someone let me know ;) ) just aren't there. At least not that I've ever seen, and believe me I look for hours in dealer's rooms.
Exposure is probably a big part of it, but its also a double edged sword. A store doesn't usually risk carrying a product if they don't think there's a market for it, but how can the market express its desire if there's no product to purchase?

Movin right along :)

On the subject of there not being an good anime since Eva. I'll agree, Eva was amazing. I really did and still do enjoy it immensely but I've seen a lot of good anime since then. The problem isnt so much what is or is not out there as much as it is our fellow fandom.
I'll use Naruto as a reference here. The fandom for Naruto exploded before anyone ever even knew what it was. I was at a Con and people were buying up the merch for Naruto like crazy but if you asked anyone who owned any of it what Naruto was they didnt have the first clue other than "ninjas?"
Personally I never latched onto the show, it didnt really grab me so maybe that's a large influence on the following opinion but: I think a number of people only like it because they bought the stuff for it and dont want to make a fool of themselves. I'm sorry but if the phrase "Are they still on Namek?" gets transfered over to another series- That isnt a good thing.
Now, to get to my point by bringing up Naruto: What Naruto chars would make good resin kits? Would any of the general fandom of Naruto be into resin kits? These are the questions that the companies have to ask themselves, even the artists ask similar questions. "Am I going to enjoy sculpting this?" its kind of the same with 2d artists. When I walk through an a Artists Alley (at least at the cons I frequent) Naruto fan art isn't really as prominant as a "popular" anime might warrant. Maybe there isnt a demand for it, or maybe most artists dont like it, or maybe they dont consider it "fun to draw"
My point is though there are good "new" anime out there. Ikkitousen is one of my personal favs along with Fullmetal Alchemist, Darker than Black and some older ones like Chobits, FLCL and Abenobashi. I know there's a mix on the market of kit and PVC Ikkitousen models, but I'd think some from particularly Darker than Black would be phenomenal.
Ultimately though not everything can be as good as Eva, it was to anime what movies like Star Wars and Lord of the Rings were to American Cinema. It shook things up a lot in the anime world and as a result almost every new anime is going to borrow from it in some respect or another. Hopefully some of the newer shows will inspire some good GKs, and maybe even pump the hobby up to at least a stable steady fandom outside just the Gundam lines, but who knows?